So, I was off at the INTP tribe reading their musings about relationships and feelings.
Its so cute to see them try and rationalize, and understand the logic behind emotions.
Anyways, INTPs intellectually stimulate me and their quirks amuse me.
So, reading the thread about their past relationships and what types fit best with them, I came across this comment by someone saying that they were in a relationship with an INFP and that person was very "manipulative" (and that it was hell... blah blah blah).
My first reaction was "Ouch".
On further analysis, I feel this could be true.
I think I have a good understanding of my own feelings, and sometimes I understand the feelings of others (or believe i do), and hence I can gauge what their emotional response(s) would be to my emotions.
So I can suppress emotions or express them in order to elicit the appropriate response from them.
For example, if I need to be emotionally strong instead of a sobbing queen, i can do that.
Is that being manipulative, or did I misunderstand it?
Does this emotional self-control ring true with others here?
Is this limited to an INFP-INTP interaction ? (where the INTP labels it "manipulative", as they understand it, or have you heard this from other types as well).
Is there a better word for this?
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Re: Manipulative?
Wed, November 7, 2007 - 1:06 AMI think they meant passive-aggressive instead of manipulative.
Especially INFPs with abusive backgrounds. They learn direct confrontation causes physical pain so they develop passive-aggressive tendencies that can be interpreted as manipulative. -
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Re: Manipulative?
Fri, November 9, 2007 - 9:43 AMI think that we can be easily perceived as being manipulative. (At least I have in the past. And precisely for being in control of those pesky emotions...)
It is that we choose when to show how we feel and when to plug on ahead without sharing, or perhaps it is when we share too much of the thought and introspection process, I'm not sure which, that seems to get us (meaning me in my past experiences) into trouble. I have been told over and over that I think things through way too much, that I over-analyze everything, that I search out the "hidden" meanings to things, that I play life and relationships as if they were a chess game... And yes, I have been called passive-aggressive and manipulative.
I do not see myself as either. I see it as, well, what it is to me. Which is always different than how outsiders view us, isn't it?
Perhaps it is the difference at seeing the grand scheme of things and looking at life through all angles that gets us perceived the way that we seem to be... But would you really change any of that if you could? -
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Re: Manipulative?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 11:51 AMI've been accused of both, too. Sometimes it's exaggerated, to justify treating me not the way I like. I don't like passive-aggressive behavior in myself or anyone else. I do not enjoy manipulating people, but I'll do it if I feel the situation calls for it, and I do it enough that I have personas for various situations. I'm more upset if it fails. Then I blame myself and curse being forced to manipulate. How much of it is powerlessness and upbringing - not being exposed to good communication skills, for example - and how much is the maybe innate Behind the Scenes tendency of INFPs? -
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Re: Manipulative?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 1:18 PMI'm glad you wrote that. Dr. Linda Berens (INTP) indicates that people with a Behind-the-Scenes communication style are often accused of being "passive-aggressive" due to their low-key informing style. This was a big eye-opener for me when I first learned about it. (There's more on this topic at my website, www.INFJorINFP.com.)
I think it might be possible to "manipulate" a Thinking type through use of tears, though it seems like that would get old quickly, wouldn't it?
It seems to reflect a demand for adaptation on both parties' parts -- meaning the person who prefers Thinking is being pressured to develop their Feeling side, while the person who prefers Feeling is being pressured to develop their Thinking side. That may be precisely what each of them needs -- and why they're attracted to one another in the first place!
In other words, if an INTP is complaining about being "manipulated," then it seems like a sign they need to "grow up" in order to avoid that happening to them -- and they're in the midst of an ideal opportunity to develop that side of themselves and get good at coping with that challenge. -
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Re: Manipulative?
Sat, November 24, 2007 - 9:01 PMFantastic reply Vicki Jo... I will visit your site as I am dealing with a very big career change and it seems that I'm resorting to my "passive-aggressive" tendencies. I was on the verge of quiting on my dreams for silly reasons/fears. My wife and friends slapped it back in my face and woke me up. Now I have overcome those fears and am pushing for the dream job I've always wanted. I need to ensure that I can acknowledge these barriers as they arise.
Also, My wife is an ENTP. We butt heads frequently in regards to logic vs. emotion, but we understand our differences and have avoided serious fights. It's tough, but I've learned so much about my analytical side and she had learned to respect my emotional bias. At times when I become manipulative, she can diffuse it with her logic and stops my self-destructive process without blame or accusations, etc... I have learned to see it in myself and can keep manipulation at bay.
-henry
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Re: Manipulative?
Sun, February 17, 2008 - 10:08 PMOMG. Thank You! You nailed it.
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Re: Manipulative?
Mon, November 26, 2007 - 3:51 AMI wouldn't describe it as "manipulative",
since the example you used was to defuse a potential conflict.
The motive of Manipulation is to achieve for personal gain at the expense of another,
but INFPs usually strive for win-win, harmonious relationships.
So I'd say emotionally "discrete" or "tactful". As an INFP, that's the way I feel about it, anyway. -
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Re: Manipulative?
Mon, November 26, 2007 - 9:58 PMwin win baby!
when I was younger I was manipulative...when angered.
I found ways around anything and everyone if I was on a mission.
Its not worth it anymore....
I tend to find ways to make all happy and comfortable and if I cant get "my way " Its ok.
I agree with you being emotionally tactful as an INFP -
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Re: Manipulative?
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 8:27 AMI see INFPs more like 'puss in boots' (from Shrek) when he does that big-eyes and head-tilt thing. haha.
Shrek himself is probably an INTP. -
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Re: Manipulative?
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 9:32 PMRax..that is so cute and true and I can picture it so well.....(smiles)
That is more like INFP manipulation if we "must" label it that way....
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Re: Manipulative?
Tue, December 25, 2007 - 1:10 PMDefinitely! And it works (at least on me - INFJ)...I'm such a sucker. :-)
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Re: Manipulative?
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 11:28 AMI don't agree with your depiction of manipulation. Often when I've being manipulative, it has been in service of some ideal or even for what I think is the good of the person I'm working on. I probably wouldn't attempt to manipulate someone if it risked much lasting harm to that person. -
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Re: Manipulative?
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 2:14 PMMy feeling on this is very much sililar to Sky2's:
**INFPs usually strive for win-win, harmonious relationships**
No doubt I have manipulated through my life, odds and ends, we would all need to wear ownership I guess. My overwhelming force-driven is the win-win; is just the biggest pay off and buzz to be a part of successful negotiations...in my work I was union rep, to get more occupational health and safety awareness, I found it very easy to appeal to management (for their duty of care) and to the fellow staff members (desire to learn and their wellbeing)..
Tell me why isn't the United Nations full of INFPS!!!! :-)
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Re: Manipulative?
Sun, December 2, 2007 - 4:53 PMhmmm...from what you're describing and from my own experience, I wouldn't say that we are consciously manipulative, but rather we are frequently interpreted that way. I think what Vicky Jo had to say on the 'passive-agressive' tendency is an accurate one. To an INFP it is a way of promoting openness in the relationship, but to the partner it may come across as needlessly indirect or sneaky. -
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Re: Manipulative?
Sun, December 2, 2007 - 8:53 PMjust an observation ..the two people that garee with Miss Vicky have no pics and 0 friends?
strange. -
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Re: Manipulative?
Mon, December 3, 2007 - 2:44 PM:-/
hiring internet shills to agree with her on Tribe doesn't seem like a very productive strategy...is there anything in my post you disagree with? -
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Re: Manipulative?
Mon, December 3, 2007 - 6:09 PMthats my passive -agressiveness talking.....
like I stated... it was just an observation...everyone has a right to their own opinion... me ....you...no worries.
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Re: Manipulative?
Tue, December 25, 2007 - 1:07 PMI'm INFJ...and yes, as my object of affection is INFP, I can say "manipulative" would not be *far* off the mark. But I probably wouldn't use that term, because his intentions are never dishonest (I don't think he could be)...but he knows how to push my buttons, that's for sure. He's also very elusive when he wants to be, which is super frustrating for my need for closure of some sort. Very confusing.
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Re: Manipulative?
Tue, January 15, 2008 - 1:43 AMIntersting, yeah I can can see how my behaviour is at times manipulative. I think it stems from two things. One, I avoid conflict and therefore often try to get what I want by "convincing" another person it's what they want instead asking them to choose. Two, in situations where I am having trouble reading the other persons feelings, I may try to prod them indirectly to make them show their cards. Sometimes, this means that I treat people rather badly in order to see if they care--and therefore value my relationship with them. I know it sounds twisted and it's not my standard operating procedure, but I do it sometimes...